Idris Build Guide : Hybrid, WP and CP build: A mathematical approach

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What would i buy first shop with the wp build

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What do you think about Sorrowblade, Tornado Trigger, Alternating Current and Shatterglass as offensive items?

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It's a good one, but offensive one

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SUPITSYABOI

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Thanks for your efforts but it seems reaaly stupid this WP build to me. Once you build your first TT the enemy obviously will build an Atlas unless they are trolls or really noobs. It's very very easily counterable. 2 TT? Atlas and GG.

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@Kemihu mentioned that earlier.I agree that Atlas can counter Idris easily but there are three options to avoid that:
-keep your distance to hero who has Atlas and using A and C attack hero who doesn't buy it (usually not everyone buys Atlas)
-pick other items such as SB/BP/TM
-you have a good captain who buys Nullwave Gauntlet and uses it on whichever enemy has Atlas

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I love all the info and all, but do you recommend Idris as a carry (like the game suggests) or a jungler? I can't seem to find it in your guide.

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I recommend playing Idris as a jungler. I know there are many players going Idris lane, but I never could understand it. WP build has only melee attacks, so enemy laner can punish you with a free damage easily, while CP build is too fragile and weak early game to reliable last hit (and you can unlock his ranged attacks around 5-6 minute)
And Chakram deals ****py damage to minions

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Lots of good info, I love the chart and videos. Great work.

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Thank you for the in-depth guide. It's very well done and informative and has helped me understand Idris much better than before. Thanks!

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Hpw long did it take you to finish this?

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Few days of playing, few hours of calculating and few hours of writing.

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Your movement speed in the table is WRONG. Journey Boots and Halcyon Chargers also provide 1 movement speed when not in combat, so it should be 4.8, 4.7, 4.7. Also, hybrid doesn't unlock ur full potential. U don't have unlimited inventory slots. And with full WP u can have 4 WP stuff one boot and one Defence item, for cp it is 4 CP stuff one boot and one defencive item, but for hybrid u only have 2 WP 2 CP one boot and one defence item, which equals 50% of both CP and WP. So for hybrid u r giving up pure damage (higher than a mix) from either paths for a blink, ranged attacks and the ability to reduce cooldown of A and ult and gain 10 stamina from each Attack. That is not 'full potential'. For me I've played matches with Idris testing with all the builds, and WP seems to be the best.

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Yeah, corrected movement speed - thanks.

And by "full potential" I meant that you unlock both melee and ranged path - I thought that was obvious (I'd like to hear what "full potential" mean to you).
When going hybrid you are not giving up damage - your melee attacks are stronger than when you're going full CP. Hybrid build offers the best balance between melee and ranged. It is also hardest to counter.
I actually find some of the hybrid builds the best for me.

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wrote:

your melee attacks are stronger than when you're going full CP.

Crystal build affects ur basic attacks 90% but Weapon Build affects ur basic attacks 100%.

Load more comments (8 more replies) →

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But it is not how it works. With my weapon build you get 200 WP, crystal offers 403 CP and hybrid - 150 WP, 200 CP. So according to you:

WP: 200*100%=200
CP: 403*90%=363
Hybrid: 150*100%+200*90%=294

So hey, CP is the best? No!
Because what also matters are speed attack and critical hits.

You can see here what actual damage per second is: http://i.imgur.com/Jfhuxcw.png

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Hey its me again. So i was reading through this chain of comments and I would like to add a small little fact which may help with this debate (lets ignore that I'm a few days late). So to get to the point about this debate about weapon power or crystal power VS hybrid builds, the hybrid build faces a small disadvantage. In hybrid builds, the range attacks have a lower DPS than that of a pure CP build, and the melee attacks have a lower DPS than a pure WP build. The good side to hybrids are that they have a higher melee DPS than a pure CP build and have a range auto attack option which the WP builds lack. However, while hybrid builds arguably have the most flexibility out all the other builds in terms of play styles, there is a main disadvantage to playing hybrid builds. This disadvantage is that the hybrid build is affected by both shield and armor. Most tier 3 defence items (which provide shield and armor) provide both shield and armor (although one is more significant than the other). This means that hybrid builds need to be able to counter both shield and armor since the enemy will probably have a bit of both. And even if they don't, all heroes have the base stats which give them shield and armor (some also have perks which do too). Another point is that you have an ally (carry or jungle depending on which position you play Idris in) who will build either crystal or weapon (or unlikely hybrid). This means that the enemy carry will get at least one defence item to counter your team, which will counter more than half of a hybrid build. Of course, vainglory is a game with many variables and it is difficult of not impossible to take all these into consideration, however, the defence built to counter you and your team should definately be taken into consideration.

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Yeah, I totally agree with your point.
Going hybrid is a challenge. The only way to play hybrid build is to constantly check what your enemies are building. I usually prefer going jungle, as you can faster accumulate gold (in my opinion). Let's say your laner is going WP. As mentioned in this guide, hybrid should start with WP as well. This may lead to situation where enemy is thinking that our team is going pure WP (we have collective brain disorder or so) and builds armor early. Especially enemy laner would probably build armor as our laner goes WP (like I mentioned before). If it happens I could finish Sorrowblade and go pure CP.

Another thing that is important - what heroes enemies picked. I highly doubt that at average match Idris would find himself in situation where he is good against enemy's jungler and laner. Usually there is one hero you have advantage against, and one should focus on items that can counter this hero.

Let's say you teams are (I am not focusing on captains here):
Petal and Idris vs Taka and Vox

While Idris isn't good hero against Taka, Petal can easily kill him. Aditionally, Vox counters Petal's Munions with resonance. In this case you should check what Vox is building (armor/shield) and respond by going more WP/CP

I know it is not easy and I understand hybrid has it's disadvantages but these are possible scenarios when hybrid may be a good option

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Yes I agree that at the build which Idris will take is very dependent on the scenario you are in. However I would like to point out that in the above scenario about making the enemy laner build armor by pretending to go WP by getting an early Sorrowblade has a lowered chance to lead to victory. This is because your laner will be countered, and a portion of yours (even if it isn't as significant as your laners) will also be countered. This means that your team will have a lowered net damage output during teamfights. Also, the CP/CP based hybrid builds have a playstyle more so like a laner than an assassin. This allows Idris to act as a second carry if he goes CP and the laner is counter-built. However, this will not be as efficient with the hybrid build which adds a Sorrowblade into the mixture. This means that this hybrid Idris will not be able to be as efficient as a pure CP when he has to step in as a second carry, which is what he should do in this case since his laner has been counter-built. The fact that the early game will be thrown away and quite difficult is another reason why this will not be as efficient. To be continued. . .

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Wow, man - I am astonished with your another your in-depth analysis.
Luckily I main captains as what you are writing tells me I'd have to learn a bit about playing jungler/carry

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Not talking about ur build. Let's just say all the offence item is sorrow or shatter (good luck finding any in the game), that's 150 power times 4 for which is 600 bonus WP or CP. 90 percent of 600 is about 540, so that's 540 bonus CP for ur basic attacks or 600 bonus WP on ur basic attacks.

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Don't tell me about attk speed here, I know it is important but we're not talking about it now

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Just a small thing but there are other things like crits, the attack range cooldown and all that. If you want to talk pure stats than yes I guess WP would offer the highest damage per hit, but take into account the range, counter defence, cooldown, crit and about 99999999999+ variables.

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Great tips, but I strongly disagree on the build. Two tornado triggers just seems absurd to me... I love the research and math put into this guide!

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Well, instead of second you can buy .
There are several reasons why I go for Tornado Trigger:
-Your DPS is slightly (3%) higher on Sorrowblade/2x TT compared to Sorrowlabe/TT/TM (1210 vs 1173 DPS)
-Attack speed lowers your cooldown and regenerates stamina
-I JUST LOVE ATTACK SPEED (that's the main reason)

But I find one reason to go for - your critical damage is also empowered by . With TM you have 20% more chance to actually hit critically, and that is a huge difference.
Taking to account critical chance, on average:
-SB/TT/TT would deal 571 damage with
-SB/TT/TM would deal 751 damage with

And that's a huge advantage for buying

Final word - if you are interested about weapon items "economics" you can go have a look at one of my work - Mathematical approach to weapon items. I compare there different combinations of Breaking Point, Bonesaw, Tornado Trigger and Tyrant's Monocle ;)

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If i replace one tornado trigger for breaking point would it be viable ?

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Of course. You don't have to build the exact items I mentioned in this guide.
One should always think first what is his play-style and what enemies he is facing. Just a quick example:
Let's say you are facing CP . If you buy and , hopefully you'll be able to survive fighting him long enough to build up BP stacks, and actually win 1vs1.

But if you are facing some annoying kiter, such as or , then you just won't be able to stay near him for a long time - he'll run away, not allowing you to build stacks. In that case I would recommend buying or , for a high burst DPS to finish him quickly

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Oh wow, never think about the one who has escape capability, thanks!

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wow dude thx for tips and builds for idris i was struggling on what build should i need for idris thx man.

Hybrid, WP and CP build: A mathematical approach by Phoeking

Hybrid, WP and CP build: A mathematical approach

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Thanks for your feedback.

Hybrid, WP and CP build: A mathematical approach by Phoeking

Hybrid, WP and CP build: A mathematical approach

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