Hybrid, WP and CP build: A mathematical approach by Phoeking

Hybrid, WP and CP build: A mathematical approach

By: Phoeking
Last Updated: Mar 2, 2017
46 Votes
Build 1 of 1

Table of content Top

1. Introduction Top

Idris is a new here introduced in 2.0 update.
He can be played in many different ways - that depends on what items you are buying.
When building weapon items he excels at assassinating vulnerable targets at close range.
When building crystal items he is able to dance around the fight, throwing ranged attacks and keeping distance.
You can also build a hybrid of weapon and crystal items to unlock his full potential in both paths.

What this guide is?
If you are wondering which one - weapon, crystal or hybrid build - is "the best one", you won't find an answer here. What I tried to accomplish was to provide information about damage, advantages and disadvantages of them, based on mathematical approach. I based this guide on three builds, which I think are the best for each of three paths, but that doesn't mean you have to stick to them to the letter. Some modifications may be useful, and I keep my mind open.

If you have any concerns about mathematics itself (how I calculated some things) - don't hesitate to ask!

2. Basics about Idris Top

- His armor and shield values (both equal 86) are average
- His health is 1600, which is average
- His basic weapon attack, equal 161 is above average of 141
- His attack speed (1,36) is around average
- His ranged attack range is 6 (just like Kestrel or Ringo)
- His move speed is around average

So what this "average" hero has to offer?!

3. Abilities Top

Divergent Paths (Heroic Perk)


Idris unlocks unique powers for either his melee or ranged paths upon attaining a certain amount of weapon or crystal power (125 CP or WP)

Melee (Weapon): Idris’s Shroudstep becomes an instantaneous blink. Passively, his melee attacks restore stamina and reduce the cooldowns of his Shroudstep and Shimmer Strike abilities.

Ranged (Crystal): Idris gains ranged basic attacks, dealing crystal and weapon damage and applying on-hit effects.


Instead of energy, Idris uses stamina to activate his abilities. Purchasing items with energy and energy regeneration increases his stamina and stamina regeneration.

Max Stamina: 100 + 10% Max Energy
Stamina Regen: 7.5 + 50% Energy Regen

Shroudstep (A)


Idris dashes in the target direction, dealing amplified damage to the next target he attacks within seconds. If Idris has not taken damage within the last few seconds, Shroudstep grants a barrier. The availability of the barrier is displayed beneath his stamina meter.

Chakram (B)


Idris throws a chakram that returns to him, damaging enemies each time it passes over them. Hitting enemy heroes, miners, or kraken recovers stamina. Idris can use his Shroudstep and Shimmer Strike abilities to avoid catching returning chakrams, giving him additional opportunities to strike enemies.

Shimmer Strike (Ultimate - C)



Idris latches onto the target hero, becoming invulnerable, then leaps off in the chosen direction, damaging surrounding enemies. The distance Idris leaps is increased in his crystal path.

4. Abilities - quick note Top

Divergent Paths is what makes Idris an interesting hero. You can choose WP path, CP path, or both! Note that Idris uses stamina instead of energy and WP path allows him to regenerate it quickly by dealing damage.
Shroudstep overdrive provides 35% amplification of all your damage (weapon, crystal, even critical damage gets amplified!), and it works both, when going melee or ranged. Keep in mind that WP path can provide a huge barrier (475 HP with this WP build), but cooldown on this ability resets after the end of the barrier (which lasts for 3.5 sec)
Chakram overdrive lowers your cooldown to 5 seconds and provides 275 + 1,3*CP + WP damage. As you can see, even WP path offers some additional damage from safe position.
Shimmer Strike - Idris' invulnerability and untargetability lasts 1.2 seconds if he latches onto enemy and 2.8 second if he chooses ally hero instead. After using this ability, tap again to choose the direction he jumps out. If you won't he'll just jump toward his original position. Note: This ability doesn't require stamina!

5. Weapon, crystal, hybrid - advantages and disadvantages Top

All right guys, here is where this guide really starts. Three different paths - weapon, crystal and hybrid.

Weapon



Weapon Idris allows you to unlock his potential as an assassin.
His primary source of damage are basic attacks combined with Shroudstep.

Advantages:

- Shroudstep amplifies your next basic attack by 35%. This amplification also includes your critical damage
- Shroudstep provides you strong barrier, which scales with your WP
- Shroudstep is an instantaneous blink (a great way to avoid e.g. Big Red Button or Spitfire)
-Basic attacks reduce cooldown on Shroudstep and Shimmer Strike by 1 second, and provides 10 stamina
-Heavy damage
-Carries, when they choose a defensive item, usually go for Aegis first (to have a Reflex Block). Less people with armor - more damage you deal

Disadvantages:

-You aren't able to stay in a fight for a long time
-If you won't kill your target quickly, you don't have a good, reliable escape
-Your only escape are Journey Boots, Shroudstep and Shimmer Strike
-Your only defense against WP enemies is Reflex Block and your ability to kill them first (unless you exchange one WP item for Metal Jacket)
-Can't fight on the distance
-Vulnerable to stuns
-As far as you are building attack speed, you are vulnerable to Atlas Pauldron

Crystal



Crystal Idris allows you to unlock his potential as a dancer, who thrown his attacks from a distance
His primary source of damage are ranged basic attacks, Chakram and Shroudstep

Advantages:

-Just like before, Shroudstep amplifies also your CP by 35% for the next attack
-You have ranged attacks, which deals good amount of your CP
-You can keep your distance, attack from safety
- Chakram deals more damage (you can have more CP than WP)
-Your melee attacks also deals CP damage!

Disadvantages:

-Lower damage than WP build
-Most heroes goes for Aegis first
-You can't keep distance against heroes with gap closers (Koshka, Taka) and you are vulnerable to stuns (your only defense is your Reflex Block)
-Your stamina will allow you to use your Chakram non stop, but you won't be able to regenrate it quickly enough to use Shroudstep as often
-You can have hard time early game, before you manage to get 125 CP and ranged attacks
-It is sometimes problematic and confusing to switch between melee and ranged attacks

Hybrid



Hybrid Idris allows you to unlock his full potential, but at some cost.

Advantages:

-Can use both melee and ranged attacks, with reasonable damage output
-It is harder to defense-counter you, because you deals both WP and CP damage
-Depending on what enemy you're facing you can use different game style (versatility)

Disadvantages:
-If you start game building the same (CP or WP) as your carry, enemies can counter you early game
-Unlocks it's both path mid-game, after getting 125 CP and 125 WP
-Vulnerable to stun
-Strong late-game
-It is sometimes problematic and confusing to switch between melee and ranged attacks

6. Statistics, damage and more Top

One not-so-obvious thing

- when going CP or hybrid you unlock ranged attacks, but in fact melee attacks are still stronger. It is caused because melee attacks still get 85% CP damage boost. Just look at the formulas:
Melee = Basic_attack_damage + WP + 90%*CP
Ranged = 50%*WP + 90%*CP

But it doesn't mean that ranged attacks are useless. It is a good way to deal damage without getting any. But if enemy closes the gap to you, don't hesitate about switching to melee - you are stronger that way

I've calculated damage for melee and ranged attacks for all three builds, against different armor/shield sets.
I've chosen average armor/shield values = 81/81, and added values of specific items:

-Without armor/shield (values 81/81 - sometimes it happens that some crazy carry won't buy any defense)
-Coat of Plates/Kinetic Shield (values 186/186 - some enemies are not able to finish Aegis/MJ during the game)
-Aegis (values 111/206 - it's common for carries to buy just Aegis, to have free slots for other items, when still having Reflex Block at the pocket)
-Metal Jacket (values 251/116 - it may happen when your ally is building WP too and enemies are countering with MJ)
-Aegis/Metal Jacket (values 281/241 - most of a heroes after long battle has these two bought)



CLICK TO ENLARGE





Now what we really see?
Weapon Idris exceeds at dealing damage (but obviously can't use ranged attacks)
Crystal and hybrid build seems to be more or less equal - CP deals slightly larger ranged damage, when hybrid is better in melee.
Keep in mind that these are just basic attacks! When going CP or hybrid Chakram will deal more damage, than when on WP build!
Ability to stay at the distance and deal damage may be worth more then just simple higher DPS number!
Versatility, and ability to not be fully countered may be worth more than anything.

I am not providing you with answer what is the best, but giving you insight on how these builds are working.

TABLE CONTAINING ALL STATS OF THREE BUILDS


Note: When calculating damage I did not taken to account any armor or shield.
WEAPON CRYSTAL HYBRID
Health 2050 2000 2000
Health regen 4.5 4.5 4.5
Stamina 100 125 125
Stamina regen 7.5 + 10 per attack 9.5 9.5 + 10 per attack
Armor 116 116 116
Shield 211 211 211
Move speed 4.8 (3.8) 4.7 (3.7) 4.7 (3.7)
Attack range 2.4 2.4 (6) 2.4 (6)
Basic damage 161 161 161
Attack speed 286% 201% 276%
Weapon Power 200 0 150
Critical Chance 80% 0% 20%
Critical damage 210% 150% 170%
Crystal Power 0 403 160
Cooldown reduction 0% 55% 15%

Melee attack 697 645 547
Ranged attack - 405 267
Melee DPS 1941 1296 1508
Ranged DPS - 813 737
Shroudstep - melee 916 870 738
Shroudstep - ranged - 546 360
Chakram 500 754 638
Shimmer Strike 700 500 650

Shroudstep cooldown 10 sec, reduced 1 sec per attack 6.5 sec 8.7 sec, reduced 1 sec per attack
Chakram cooldown 7 sec 3.2 sec 4.3 sec
Shimmer Strike cooldown 50 sec, reduced 1 sec per attack 48.4 sec 65.2 sec, reduced 1 sec per attack

7. Weapon build Top

So! As a weapon path I've chosen:

NOTE: You can exchange Tyrant's Monocle by Metal Jacket to gain more defense! That depends on enemies you are facing and you game style. You can also pick Slumbering Husk to counter burst heroes

Abilites should be:

You may wonder why I recommend buying these items and that's what I am about to answer:

As a WP Idris you should wait in the bush, till enemy comes close, then use your Shroudstep to initiate the fight, aiming the most fragile hero. Your basic attack, empowered by Shroudstep will most likely deal tons of damage and you will be able to finish him quickly. Keep in mind that you have 80% chance of doing critical damage, which is amplified by 35% as well! Additionally, when building WP you'll have a large barrier at the beginning of the fight, and your attack speed (2,86 attacks per second) will allow you to lower your cooldown on Shroudstep and Shimmer Strike, and recover your stamina. With it, you'll be able to use your abilities more frequently, to chase enemies or escape when it's getting too hot.

8. Crystal build Top

As a crystal path I've chosen:

NOTE: You can exchange Clockwork by Metal Jacket to gain more defense! That depends on enemies you are facing and you game style. You can also pick Slumbering Husk to counter burst heroes
You can also build Broken Myth instead of Shatterglass, if enemy is building Aegis

Abilities should be:
Why? It's simple.

Your primary source of damage will be you ranged basic attack and Chakram. Amplification from Shroudstep will be useful as well.
With this build you'll have 403 CP.
Your ranged attacks deal 85% CP, and Alternating Current makes every second attack deal additional 70% CP.
Chakram deals 275 + 130% CP, and with Clockwork has a cooldown of 3.2 second.
Frostburn will slow everyone by 35% for 1.5 sec

Usual way crystal Idris should fight is:
-Using Chakram on enemy from the distance (applying slow)
-Throwing ranged attack and keeping your safe space
- Chakram returns and hopefully deals additional damage
- Shroudsteping away from the enemy, and dealing an empowered ranged attack
-Throwing Chakram again...

If enemy has low health, and is running away you can actually Shroudstep toward them. You can even switch to melee attacks! After you unlock your ranged attack, your melee attacks also deals 90% CP!, which makes them even more powerful than your ranged (but less safe).

NOTE: I've noticed that Clockwork amplification isn't taken to account when using ranged attacks, but it is, when using melee

9. Hybrid build Top

For hybrid Idris I've picked:

NOTE: You can exchange Tornado Trigger by Metal Jacket to gain more defense! That depends on enemies you are facing and you game style. You can also pick Slumbering Husk to counter burst heroes

Abilities:
That makes use of your Heroic Perk in 100%.
What you've got is:

-Your ranged attacks deal reasonable damage, and slow targets
-Your melee attack deal even better damage, and can crit with amplification
-You have good attack speed (2,76) which let's you lower cooldown on your A and C, and restore stamina

It is hard to write how you should fight when going hybrid - it strongly depends on what enemy you're facing and what they are building


PS. Just to clarify some things - ranged attacks deal 50% WP, but this damage can't crit.

10. Threats and synergy Top


All right, here I'll try to provide you with information which enemy heroes are a challenge to you and which heroes your allies can pick to make it easier for you.
I write this only for weapon and crystal builds! The reason for this is because they differ in play-style, while when going hybrid you can always buy more CP or WP to make it easier for you to fight your enemies.

Weapon



Weapon Idris is a killing machine, but only at close range. The best you can do is wait in the bushes and surprise your enemy with a burst damage. That is why WP Idris have a hard time fighting kiters - he just can't catch them.

Crystal
He has huge range with his Porcupine Mortar and it slow you down. When he tries to get away with Jump Jets - use Shimmer Strike to travel with him and finish him off when he lands.


She doesn't have reliable way to escape from you (she can only try to stun you, but you can use your Shroudstep to dodge it. Sadly, she has a huge range with her A and her Heliogenesis will reveal you in bushes.


He can approach you while invisible, slow you down or root you, preventing you from attacking enemy carry. He can also counter your attack speed with Atlas Pauldron.


She will reveal you in a bush with Buckshot Bonanza and have a way to escape from you


It depends on her build, but she can travel all around the map on stealth, turn invisible while you attack her and burst in seconds. Hint when fighting her - come closely and dance around her using Shroudstep - she'll have hard time aim at you.


She is able to hit and run efficiently. You have to burst her down.


He is able to root and stun you for enough time to their carry kill you. Dodge him with Shroudstep.


CP
One of the best kiter in game, which means the worst hero for Idris. Only way is to ambush her from bushes, or throw Chakram at her munions and finish them with melee attacks.


A great kiter as well.


When he walks inside the Drifting Dark - run or dodge with Shroudstep. He usually goes for Frostburn, and has good range.


When he is on spin up don't fight him alone - you'll probably lose. Poke him with Chakram and wait for your teammates.


Skye is one of the hardest heroes to play and many players are easy to fight against. I advice dodging Skye's Forward Barrage with Shroudsted.


Pain in the *** for many heroes. Try to use Shimmer Strike as soon you see him to prevent him from damaging you and making him a bit flabbergasted. After he goes invisible try to use Chakram and burst him.




One great tip for playing WP Idris

Let's say it's late game and your team is waiting with you in a bush near Kraken.
You see enemy team is in the opposite bush - enemy captain (A) approaches toward you - but your goal is to quickly kill their carry (B)! The great way to get to their carry quickly is to use Shimmer Strike on their captain (A) and leap off toward their carry (B). And you still have Shroudstep in your pocket to catch him if he escapes.


Synergy



WP Idris is the best when he has an aggressive-tanky captain and mobile carry in his team.
Good captains to pair up with Idris are: Ardan, Catherine, Flicker, Fortress, Lance and Phinn. All of them offers some sort of stunning, rooting, slowing ect. the enemy. A good captain will always try to help you kill their carry and with his help you'd be able to do so in seconds.

Good laners to pair up with Idris are: Gwen, Kestrel, Petal, Ringo and Skye. All of them offers some slow or other things to let you catch or kill enemies easier.



Crystal



Crystal Idris should poke enemy with Chakram and keep his distance when attacking with basic attacks. He have hard times with assassins and gap-closers, but his abilities allows him to make distractions and confuse enemies, staying alive. He isn't the best kiter as well and heroes with better range can be problematic.

If you won't dodge her Prime Directive you are probably dead. She is tanky, and you probably won't be able to kill her 1v1. Shimmer Strike on her when she is about to explode.


Great gap closer and a superb mobile hero. Fortunately, CP Idris offers good melee damage as well and you could win against him in a close combat.


She isn't an assassin, but she has a greater range with her Heliogenesis and even with Shroudstep it would be hard to avoid taking damage from her.


You can't keep your distance if he slows you.


A skilled Glaive can be pain in the ***. Try to use Shimmer Strike on him when he is about to hit you with Afterburn.


Reflex block is all you have to prevent her from stunning you.


A WP Lance can be a nightmare, especially if he decides to gank you early-game. Be light on your feet and don't let him root you.


He can easily close the gap to you with Acrobounce or his ult and he is usually too sustainable for you to fight him alone.


She has a better range than you, and is superb kiter. Kill her munions with Chakram/basic attacks and retreat.


You are ****ed. Try to use Shimmer Strike on him as he attacks and hit him with Chakram as he goes invisible.


Synergy



To be honest, CP Idris is best played when he has two melee allies. Then, he can stay relatively safe outside the fight and hit multiple targets with his Chakram. I mentioned in this guide that Idris should go to the jungle, but for the sake of getting some melee ally you can go to the lane as well - it would be hard early, but it is possible to last hit without taking much damage.

Recommended heroes to match up with Idris are:
Alpha - tanky enough and has a gap-close abilities you are lacking.
Blackfeather - his mobility is great
Joule - even without much mobility, she can poke enemies with her Thunderstrike just like you
Krul - risky choice as he can have a hard time with kiters, but a great tank for you
Ozo - sustain

And captains:
Ardan - barrier and speed boost for you to escape + Gauntlet.
Flicker - traps enemies with his slow and they are easy to kill then
Lance - OH MY GOD I LOVE HIM
Phinn

11. How to start Top

I usually recommend going jungle. The only exception is when you are going CP Idris and you have a melee jungler in your team. But when going lane be careful! Last hit with Chakram or by using Shroudstep, making hit and retreat. You can have very hard time if enemy laner is eg. SAW.
You don't have your ranged attack early game, your Chakram has large cooldown (10 sec) and it deals ****py damage to minions (45 + 25% of your WP and CP). That isn't much, but skilled players can last hit in the lane. For beginners I recommend jungle.

Starting items:

Weapon ( Swift Shooter, Weapon Blade, Halcyon Potion)
Crystal ( Swift Shooter, Crystal Bit, Halcyon Potion)
Hybrid ( Swift Shooter, Weapon Blade, Halcyon Potion)

Try to avoid early invading, especially when going CP path. Hopefully, your Captain will be smart and buy Scout Traps and Flares. If he doesn't - buy them asap!

The best way to play the jungler is to... clear the jungle. No, but seriously! There are so many players who hide in the lane bushes for like, hours, trying to gank enemy laner. Do that only when you cleared the jungle, and go back to doing so, when you know minions are about to spawn!
Of course if your laner needs some help, go right ahead. It's better to lose some time, than a turret.


WEAPON

WP based Idris will clear jungle efficiently, and will be able to defend it against enemies early game.
After buying starting items, rush toward Sorrowblade and Blazing Salvo. After that, it's time to get Reflex Block, then finish Tornado Trigger. Go from there as you like.


CRYSTAL

You are weak early game, and should be cautious like hell. Just stay in your part of the jungle, covered in scout traps and pray they won't invade you. You should first buy 2x Heavy Prism, Eclipse Prism, Blazing Salvo. This will be enough to unlock your ranged attacks (with the lower item cost equal to 3450 gold). I never actually payed attention to when I pass this 125 CP barierr, but I guess you can do it within 5-7 minutes (?). next step it to finish those into Alternating Current and Frostburn. After getting those you can show your face to the enemy, fight a bit, but better buy first Reflex Block. Remember that this build gets really strong after buying Shatterglass, to enhance your CP. Clockwork is your last item.


HYBRID

To prevent being weak early game, you should first start like you're going WP path. Finish Sorrowblade (with Blazing Salvo in your pocket - everybody needs some attack speed), then go for Frostburn and Alternating Current. The mid-game part, when you have Sorrowblade and are building CP is part, when you spend a lot of gold, but gain little. Only after breaking magical boundary of 125 CP it actually makes you stronger.
End with Tornado Trigger.



Here is the difference between these three builds:
-WP is strong the whole game
-CP is weak early game
-Hybrid is kinda weak mid game

12. Final word about builds Top

Please, don't restrict yourself to build I mentioned in this guide!



The beauty of Idris and Vainglory is that every game is different and you have to take to account what are your allies, your enemies, what they are building, what is your play style etc.

That is why I am posting here additional builds you should consider - they all have different advantages.

Weapon


You still maintain high damage, but decrease healing ability of your enemies
Your enemies are trying to counter you with Metal Jacket? Bonesaw is a solution
A more bursty build. Combining Tension Bow with Shroudstep makes you build several Breaking Point stacks with a first attack.

Crystal


Your Chakram will deal more damage, but at a cost of longer cooldown
This is the best build for simple ranged DPS

Hybrid


Higher ranged DPS than my original hybrid build, but with slightly lower melee DPS (thanks @OblivionVG)
Interesting build - maybe not that powerful in therms of DPS, but it counters both - armor&shield

13. Showcase Top

I came with an idea that I can post some of my gameplay - maybe you'll find it usefull.
Sorry for quality of those and that I recorded them by filming my screen with another phone (I have to learn how to use that in game recording)

I was on my WP build (SB/TT/TT/TM/Aegis/Journey Boots). This video shows your damage dealing potential and that with good positioning and a good Captain (great Lyra on my team) you can stay almost full health

This video shows Idris' ability to dodge attacks and stay alive in difficult situations. Pay attention that if you are close to the enemy who relies on untargetable abilities (Kestrel's Glimmershot) you can move behind him using Shroudstep, dodging his attack and having a chance to finish him

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